Julie Bishop - Member for Curtin

Sky News, Showdown with Peter Van Onselen

Subjects: Senator Bob Carr’s blunders; USA; Zimbabwe; Syria; Coalition policies; GST Distribution Review; Labor leadership; 2013 election

E&OE…

PETER VAN ONSELEN    I am joined now out of Perth by the Deputy Leader of the Coalition in opposition, as well as the Shadow Foreign Affairs spokeswoman, Julie Bishop. Ms Bishop thanks very much for your company.

JULIE BISHOP    Good evening Peter, good to be with you.

PETER VAN ONSELEN    I wanted to start in the domain of foreign affairs and I guess check in with you what on earth is going on with Bob Carr? I have described him before as a reserve grader that worked his way into first grade when he got his Senate position in the Federal Parliament, here he is now strutting the world stage. He has had a conversation with Mitt Romney where there seems to be a disagreement about what was said, this has been reported across the US media. What do you think was said? Have we got any insight on who is telling the truth and who is not between Mitt Romney and Bob Carr?

JULIE BISHOP    Well Bob Carr has triggered somewhat of a political storm in the United States with his unhelpful intervention in the Presidential election campaign. It was reported that he told Governor Romney during a private meeting that world leaders had told him that “America was in decline”.

Now Bob Carr is saying he didn’t say that but he has virtually admitted those words because he says he was trying to be helpful and tell them that he thinks that the United States isn’t in decline and that will dispel all those doubts.

So he has still got some questions to answer. Which world leaders told him that the United States was “in decline”, and did they give him approval to tell a Presidential candidate? In any event it seems that he has given one version to Mitt Romney, he has now said it was taken out of context…

PETER VAN ONSELEN    By Mitt Romney?

JULIE BISHOP    Yes, by Mitt Romney, so his first statement was seen as criticism of President Obama, he has now contradicted Governor Romney and that is being used by the Obama camp to criticise Governor Romney.

Now Peter it takes a rare skill for an Australian Foreign Minister to intervene in a US Presidential election campaign, trigger a storm between the two candidates and then find himself at odds with both sides!

PETER VAN ONSELEN    [laughs] Sorry I shouldn’t laugh.

JULIE BISHOP    But Peter this is not the first time he has done it. Remember when he made that extraordinary claim that should Papua New Guinea delay their elections then he would have to organise the world to isolate and condemn Papua New Guinea and impose sanctions? I mean that was just unbelievable.

But he also made comments about Afghanistan. You might recall when he said that the Taliban should be out of any discussions on security negotiations and then in the next breath he said that the Taliban should form part of the Afghan government even though Australian troops were fighting an insurgency against them. And then he contradicted President Obama over military intervention in Iran. He said that military action against Iran over nuclear weapons should be ‘off the table’ whereas President Obama said it should be ‘on the table’ and yet Senator Carr insisted that he was ‘at one’ with President Obama.

He has also been criticised for revealing details of confidential discussions he had with Chinese officials. You might remember the unfortunate incident over the dead Brazilian boy’s dead parents. And then there was his intervention in the James Ashby case where he tweeted some comments about the veracity of James Ashby’s claims in the middle of the trial so that the complainant’s lawyers have now taken this on board as more evidence in his case. I mean this is a man who clearly doesn’t have the judgement or the skill to be the Foreign Minister.

PETER VAN ONSELEN    When you put together those blunders they sort of pale into insignificance to the Prime Minister. Maybe he could move into that role if they are looking for another leadership candidate other than Kevin Rudd?

Let me just ask you, and you actually left off as well that he got the number of troops that we have stationed in Afghanistan way, way wrong when he was asked about that as well and he was insistent when being interviewed…

JULIE BISHOP    Only 4,000 out. He insisted there were 5,500 troops in Afghanistan when of course we have 1,550. So he was nearly 4,000 troops out. Now that is a significant blunder particularly as he insisted that he was right. That is a significant blunder for a Foreign Minister who should be on top of his brief in these matters.

PETER VAN ONSELEN    We should get him on the program and starting him with the names of various leaders of world countries, I am sure he would be struggling based on that kind of a track record. But let me ask you the question though, in the context of the issue behind his blunder in the United States, what is your view? Do you think the American, the nation of America, United States, is in decline or not?

JULIE BISHOP    No I do not believe that for a moment, and I have just come back from the Australian American Leadership Dialogue in Washington and New York and there is no doubt that the United States is having severe economic difficulties. But once they are able to achieve a compromise over the budget, this is the so-called fiscal cliff issue about tax cuts and expenditure cuts, then I believe that they will be free to do what America does best, that is innovate, take risks, create new businesses, create wealth and start paying off debt.

There is a deal of optimism in some circles that the United States will pull through this and indeed for the rest of the world’s sake we hope that is the case. But I have great faith in the United States ability to reinvent itself and to call upon that great spirit of enterprise that has developed the world’s largest economy, and I expect it to remain that way for some way to come.

PETER VAN ONSELEN    Well from the United States to Zimbabwe, quite a different country, we’ve got their leader, or one of their leaders, visiting this country at the moment. Now what is your view? He has been arguing, Morgan Tsvangirai that is, he has been arguing that we are in a position where he would like to see Australia not so much go down the aid route as serious economic engagement. What is your view about that though in the context that lets face it Zimbabwe as a country still has a way to go before its truly embraced democracy?

JULIE BISHOP    I think he is sending a very powerful message. I met with Prime Minister Tsvangirai on Sunday and incidentally it is 10 years since I last met with him. I was an electoral observer for the Commonwealth for the 2002 Presidential Election and Morgan Tsvangirai had been charged with high treason by Robert Mugabe, his opponent. The election was held against a background of intimidation and violence and you might recall that Zimbabwe was suspended from the Commonwealth as a result.

But in the last few years, particularly since the 2008 election which ended up in a power sharing arrangement between Mugabe’s Zanu-PF party and Tsvangirai’s MDC party, there have been great gains made in the country. Political reform is underway, they have released a draft constitution which Morgan Tsvangirai hopes will go to a referendum later this year, and that sets out a whole raft of reforms that will bring the country back to a more democratic and free nation.

But also in terms of economic reforms they have made great gains there. There was rampant inflation and they have now adopted the US dollar as their currency, they have managed to bring down inflation and they are now looking for economic development. And his message to Australia and to other countries is they want to be able to have the opportunities for greater trade and investment so they are no longer suffering under sanctions, that they are no longer just aid recipients but they are treated as equal partners in an economic sense.

And I think he should be given all the support we can. Australia currently provides Zimbabwe with about $60 million of aid money each year but absolutely nothing in terms of foreign direct investment. He is calling for Australian companies to take a greater interest in their agricultural sector, in their mining and resource sector. And once upon a time Zimbabwe was a thriving, very sustainable economy and he wants to hark back to those days and take Zimbabwe forward and I think he deserves our support.

PETER VAN ONSELEN    Well let’s just not let Bob Carr anywhere near him or the relationship might be ruined. But on another topic in relation to Syria. Now there has been a discussion in the context of where the regime is at and the ongoing civil war there about the idea that they might turn to chemical weapons of one form or another, is that concern that you have within the conflict and what is going on over there?

JULIE BISHOP    Well it is indeed a concern, in fact I wrote an article about this at the beginning of July, my concern that the Assad regime had stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons. And in fact in just the last couple of days a leading member of the Assad regime has confirmed that they do hold stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons. They claim that they won’t be using….

PETER VAN ONSELEN    How likely are they to use them do you think?

JULIE BISHOP    Well they have claimed they won’t use them on the Syrian people, however they haven’t ruled out using them against what they call foreign aggressors. Now given that the regime labels anyone who opposes the regime to be a terrorist backed by foreign interests it is not a great leap to see there could be a pretext at some time whereby the regime uses weapons against their own people.

Now I am hoping that is not the case because that would lead to an even greater loss of life. But also worrying is that if the stockpiles are there, they could be vulnerable to being stolen by terrorist groups. Al Qaeda is said to be operating in Syria…

PETER VAN ONSELEN    Ms Bishop can I just jump in? That is one of the big issues here really because as much as the Assad regime is hardly one that anyone is likely to back there is a real concern about the nature of what happens in a Syria post the Assad regime in relation to a lot of the jihadists and so forth that are making their way through the resistance movement in one form or another?

JULIE BISHOP    That is right. The terrorist groups are in fact taking advantage of the internal turmoil in Syria, and in other countries. And the reports that al Qaeda is operating in Syria are deeply concerning particularly if these stockpiles are now vulnerable. So they must be secured as a matter of urgency and then the other global initiatives that are underway, including sanctions and diplomatic efforts, must be pursued.

PETER VAN ONSELEN    Now onto domestic politics if I can? You are over there on the other side of the Nullarbor, we had a promotion to the show about the search for the elusive Liberal Party policy. It is not an unfair point is it? You are the Deputy Leader of the Coalition – I realise that oppositions are loathed to come out with sort of fight back-esk style packages now for fear that they lose the unlosable election – but it is about time isn’t it that the Opposition put out more policies rather than focussing in on the albeit fairly large amount of errors and problems within the government?

JULIE BISHOP    Peter as a matter of fact our leader Tony Abbott has made 40 policy statements in the last two years and he has raised a whole range of policy initiatives that we’ll detail closer to the election. But some of them have been quite detailed - our mental health policy for example, but he has also spoken about our small business initiatives, childcare initiatives, for charities, for managing registered organisations, we’ve talked about banking reforms, productivity measures, infrastructure.

He has made 40 policy statements. One that I am particularly keen on is the two-way student exchange, a modern day Colombo Plan, for ensuring that students in our region come to Australia but more Australians go overseas to live and study in our region. We’ve got a policy on teaching second languages.

So there are a whole raft of policies that are out there and we will have, and we do have, a very detailed election policy platform for the next election. And in good time they will all be costed and put out there for the Australian people to judge, certainly in advance of the next election. We still have 12 months to go before the next election which should be held in August of 2013 at the latest.

PETER VAN ONSELEN    Maybe not if Kevin Rudd comes back, you might have to get those policies out quick smart.

JULIE BISHOP    We’re ready. We’re ready.

PETER VAN ONSELEN    What about the policy area of how to deal with Goods and Services Tax? I ask this in the context of the review that Nick Greiner has been involved with. We spoke to him on Australian Agenda and it didn’t sound like he is particularly bullish about adjusting in the direction of your home state of Western Australia. There has been a lot of concerns raised by particularly people like Christian Porter who is now going to be entering the federal team for the Coalition at the next election, he was the State Treasurer of course, about the fact that WA doesn’t get its fair share. Do you see the Coalition coming out with a strong policy to try and put a base limit on how much GST take WA does lose?

JULIE BISHOP    Well Peter as a West Australian I understand the angst that the State feels from receiving less and less of its GST revenues. However I am also very aware of the fact that other state governments have long-term budgetary decisions based on the current arrangements so any change would have to be carefully considered and carefully managed.

You mention Christian Porter, well I can’t think of anyone better to promote Western Australia’s case than a former State Treasurer in the Barnett government. But my point is this…

PETER VAN ONSELEN    But will he be listened to though? That really is the question because it is all good and well to have the sympathies but at the end of the day do you envisage a change even if, as you say, because of the forward planning in the state budgets around the country that change has to perhaps be X number of years down the track.

JULIE BISHOP    Well my point is this, Western Australia has a good case. While of course it has benefited from the mining and resources boom, that has also put enormous pressures on the State in terms of increased population and increased infrastructure needs so we have got to take that into account.

We also should as a general principle not get into a situation where States are rewarded for suppressing or depressing economic activity on the basis that it doesn’t matter if they do that because then they will be rewarded through increased GST revenues from States that are undertaking economic development and economic activity. So there has to be a balance here.

The debate is yet to be fully formed because we are waiting on the report from Nick Greiner, but I can assure you that I’ll be in there arguing Western Australia’s case, as I am sure other Western Australians will be, and no doubt there will be plenty of arguments on the other side. But we mustn’t fall for the trap of rewarding States that are making decisions that suppress or depress economic activity.

PETER VAN ONSELEN    Fair enough, and just one final question if I could. I guess it relates to the polling today indirectly, 28 per cent primary vote for Labor. Some rumours and suggestions that there could be a move to Kevin Rudd sooner rather than later. The other suggestion is that a lot of people within the Labor Party are taking about no need to panic because the election isn’t due until late next year. Are you concerned about a change over to Kevin Rudd which might precipitate an earlier election or would you rather fight an election against Julia Gillard towards the very end of 2013?

JULIE BISHOP    Well Peter first of all the election should not be in late 2013, Julia Gillard called the election for August 2010 and that was when it was held. We have three year terms so the next election should be held in August 2013, at the latest. If Labor figures are now talking about pushing it out to the end of 2013 they are clearly running away from the opinion of the Australian people. I mean the Australian people have a right to vote for their party to govern the country and that should be three years after the last election. So that takes us to August 2013.

Secondly, I think the problem that Julia Gillard now faces is that she has been telling all her colleagues that her polling will improve and her Party’s polling will improve once certain milestones are reached. Well she is running out of milestones. She said the polling would improve after the carbon tax legislation had passed the Parliament, then she said the polling would improve after the cash splashes appeared in people’s bank accounts, then she said the polling would improve after the carbon tax came into effect. Well at some point even her supporters are going to run out of patience and wake up to the fact that Julia Gillard would rather lead them over a cliff than give up her job as Prime Minister of this country. She’ll cling to it at whatever cost.

As far as we are concerned, it doesn’t matter if it is Kevin Rudd or Julia Gillard; it is the policies that have failed the Australian public, Labor Party policies.

PETER VAN ONSELEN    Can I just ask on this issue of the election timing, you are calling for her to have it within the three year timeframe of when she was elected, August 2013 that would mean. There is some suggestion by, at least the rhetoric around the traps within the Labor Party that they might be trying to push it out to perhaps November. But is that any different, is your criticism of that any different to what is going on in your own state with Colin Barnett? I mean he was elected almost four years from a couple of months from now yet he then immediately after that committed going all the way through to February next year. That is more than his four year term.

JULIE BISHOP    But these are fixed terms, this is a different issue all together. You will recall that they brought the election forward, Alan Carpenter in 2008 election brought the election forward by at least 6 months, that was his call. What I am saying is this is Julia Gillard’s call. She had the election in August of 2010 so the next election, if it is Julia Gillard that makes that call and not Kevin Rudd or somebody else, then it should be in August of 2013.  Otherwise it will look like Labor is running away from the judgement of the Australian people.

PETER VAN ONSELEN    Yep, fair point, I was hoping you might forget that Alan Carpenter called the election early. Alright, Julie Bishop thanks very much for joining us on Showdown, we appreciate your company.
 
JULIE BISHOP    No I remember it well. Thanks Peter.

PETER VAN ONSELEN    Thank you.